Reactions to 'Afghanistan-- the spark of an intifada?' and "Tajik intifada in Kabul?'
Put your comments on this 5/29 post and this 5/30 post here. Keep 'em friendly.
posted by helena at 9:57 PM
Monday, May 29, 2006
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10 Comments:
"A vehicle that was part of the foreign presence in the country apparently went out of control and ended up killing and injuring a number of the indigenous citizens... Today"
Great excuses Helena, WENT OUT OF CONTROL!!!
This common practise by US forces in Afghanistan and Iraq
For more that three years in Iraq specially in Baghdad no one of your follow put one word here or I did not read any where that those " a vehicle went out of control" and destroyed all the curbs and road fencing Highways fencing in Iraq.
What human you are we talk to.
Helena I told by many family members that those "a vehicle went out of control" and jumps over civilians cars and killed many Iraqi without caring if those "indigenous citizens".
This one of the examples I heard Helena, on Friday prayers in Um Al-qurra Mosque there was along line of traffic jam this because the US military closed the road to Mosque in Baghdad, there is warning for the Iraqi that they should keep 1.5Km far from any US Military cars and while the Mosque start Al Athan the US troops near the Mosque played their Hip Hop Music very loudly and dancing in the street and poor those Iraqi waiting and watching those Invaders just humiliate these indigenous citizens..
This last year incident, you need to ask Brian who fill his site with images of Iraqi tortured by Bader militia but no single Image showing Iraqi tortured by American and he but his site name Alive In Baghdad" all fake Helena, go and speak to Iraqis or Afghanis they will tell you the truth but are you prepared to published their testimonies?
God Help us and save our country from invaders
There is also East Timor intifada East Timor violence
Thanks Helena, for posting this great analysis of the situation in Afghanistan. It goes much deeper than the comments offered by Juan Cole's blog. It seems that many Americans who are critical of the Iraq war are nevertheless supporters of the Afghan invasion, Juan Cole is a good example.
However, when the US bombed and occupied Afghanistan, it was already a poor and weak country devastated by years of wars. They were not in need of another one. Bombing the hell out of Afghanistan was only a vengeful act after 9/11. Terrorists and underground movements can't be fought using traditional war methods, these methods only harmed civilians. The actual situation is the best proof of that. What lind of results got the US ? hundreds of prisonners in the shameful prison of Guantanamo, who can't be brought to trial because for the most part they are just innocents, or fighters resisting the US invasion and because out of despair in front of this failure the US tortured them. What was needed was traditional intelligence work, not the down pouring of hundreds tons of bombs. Inebriated by her so-called unmatched military power, the US entered in another war then, the Iraq war. Treating its allies like shit, she bullied all those NATO members who refused to come along in this new folly and breach international laws; the pressures came to a such a point that in order to calm those bushists, they accepted to provide troops for Afghanistan instead, especially the Germans (who had never sent any troops out of their country since WWII), the French and the Canadians). Now they are threatened by a stretched military who wants to withdraw troops and let them in this quagmire they have created. For sure these troops were sent there mainly for reconstruction and I hope that these limits will hold and prevent the EU/Canadian troops to enter in more aggressive warmongerings there. Let the US sort out the troubles she has created all over the world.
The last sentence should be :
"Now they are threatened by a stretched US military who wants to withdraw troops and let them in this quagmire.
Say, you are right I was soft-pedaling a little bit the description of what happened with the US military convoy in Kabul-- mainly to strengthen the analogy with what happened in Gaza in 1987 (which was, I think a civilian Israeli truck going thru Gaza.) In both cases the vehicle driver(s) were driving in a recklessly unsafe manner because (1) they had gotten to the point of not really giving a damn about the safety of the indigenous citizens through whose midst they were driving, not really seeing them as humans any more, and (2) they were probably very scared and hoping to reach a more secure destination very quickly.
This is not to excuse any of the drivers, but to try to explain the dynamics of what happens. And yes, it certainly happens all the time in Iraq!
Thanks for trying to integrate our understanding of US wars. It helps.
Just want to say -- it is not the same having to come over here for the comments. I hope this is a short term technological glitch and we can "all get on one page" again, if possible.
Regarding the Taliban attacks in the South, I disagree with you about a troop withdrawal. You've pointed out examples of the U.S. taking its eyes off the ball in the past. A withdrawal would be the the U.S. taking its eyes off completely away. Afghanistan needed a large influx of troops and investment in order to defeat the Taliban and rebuild the infrastructure. As you, Mr. Rashid, and many others have pointed out the US instead focused resources on the horribly mistaken war in Iraq. The great mistake in Afghanistan indeed was the US forgetting about its involvement in Afghan development in 1989, and the same in 2003. Afghanistan then needs much greater commitment. Ahmed Rashid noted in his BBC article that "US-led coalition forces were never deployed in southern Afghanistan in sufficient numbers". They must be deployed now.
Months ago I was in favor of a U.S. withdrawal with E.U. forces replacing them. My reasoning was that the U.S. had discredited itself with acts of torture in its bases and a disregard for cultural respect in its house searches. I figured then that the E.U. forces would do a more thoughtful job. But the E.U. forces are being put out with limits that I think need to be removed as well as Rashid does. So I fear that they're going to be fed to the meat grinder as a reasult. I then realized that the real solution was not for the US troops to pull out and pass the responsibility on to somebody. The solution was for the US troops to clean up their act, stay in Afghanistan, and make a real commitment to Afghanistan's survival.
Afghanistan has only about 20000 troops while Iraq has 100000. I want a withdrawal of troops from Iraq to happen soon. So then the troops in Afghanistan can be 100000 strong, or more. That's as it should've been; in hindsight Afghanistan shold've been the only place in this War on Terror where troops would deploy. Either that or better yet an 100000 strong deployment of UN or ISAF troops, sent with a mandate to fight back and defeat the Taliban. Then the troops can deal with the warlords and the drug lords and reconstruction can really be started.
I applaud Juan Cole for supporting the mission in Afghanistan. It's been the incompetant tactics that have endangered the mission that I condemn.
Regarding the Kabul riots: Thanks to you and Juan Cole for focusing on the Tajik backgrounds of the riots. They're very useful in illustrating the shades of grey of the situation. Both of you noted that these riots were not necessarily pro-Taliban. Many protestors probably felt a lot of hostility to the Taliban as indicated by their carrying the portrait of Mashood ( In one TV news broadcast I also saw protestors waiving the black-red-green Afghan flag. Taliban sympathizers wouldn't embrace that flag. )
The Christian Science Monitor has another good article about the riots. I strongly respect the CSM for its objectivity. The article pointed out the possibility of agents with an anti-government agenda ( maybe Taliban, maybe just anti Karzai ) manipulating the crowds to run amok. That would be similar to the Jalalabad protests over the descration of the Koran, which started peaceful until someone provoked the crowds into destroying buildings. The article also notes that thieves might've taken advantage of the protests to loot stores. I think the anger expressed by the crowds against corruption and abuse of power was sincere; people would've been throwing rocks at the convoys no matter what. But I suspect that apart from that the protests would've been peaceful if not for agitators and criminals inciting the crowds to cause all that vandalism.
Corruption and abuse of power are serious threats to the future of Afghanistan. These riots must force the troops and the government to address these problems. I'd like to hope that these protests which started as riots might instead evolve into a political reform movement. But you describe a movement only for Tajiks. Such a reform movements needs to be responsive to Pashtuns and other ethnicities as well.
Kabul appears calm today curiously enough. But I wonder how Friday mosque services will go. I hope that whatever comes out on Friday it will stay only to peaceful protests.
Inkan wrote :
It's been the incompetant tactics that have endangered the mission that I condemn.
Facts proove that the invasion/occupation of Afghanistan was the wrong things to do, but you are now asking for more of the same !!??
What Has Afghanis So Angry
The young rioters in Kabul see Western aid agencies that don't seem to be helping change things that much and a government dominated by one ethnic group
By RACHEL MORARJEE/KABUL
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1199254,00.html
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